Short answer? It’s not.
First of all, a relationship is what you make it, so if you make it without sex, but still with romance and whatever else you want in it, and still feel that it is a romantic relationship, then it is.
Second of all, we put too much emphasis on sex. We don’t have to have it at all. If a person just plain isn’t interested in sex, does that mean they can’t/ won’t ever have a romantic relationship? If a person, for some reason, can’t have sex, does that mean they won’t ever have a romantic relationship?
Some people might want to answer “yes” to those questions, but really think about it. Sex and romance aren’t the same thing. Sex CAN be part of romance, but it doesn’t have to be. On the other side of the coin, romance is OFTEN not part of sex in this day and age.
A lot of the times when you hear a person complain that all the romance has gone out of their relationship, they aren’t talking about sex at all, and frequently, the sex has not gone out of their relationship.
Sex can enhance a romantic relationship, but it doesn’t make a relationship romantic. In addition, I feel like if the romance in a relationship is tied to sex in every way, the couple needs to work on finding some other activities that are romantic, but not sexual in nature. This way, they have more variety, and they also have things to fall back in the event that one or both of them can’t or won’t have sex. This way, if anything happens to their sex life, they won’t feel like they have lost the romance in their relationship, too.
The one problem I can definitely see coming up in a relationship where there is no sex, if when one partner wants, or craves sex. It’s a natural, biological desire, and most people can’t or don’t want to go without it for long. In this case, I do feel that it is to the couples benefit to make some sort of agreement that allows the sexual partner to have sex with someone.
Another difficult situation would be if one or both partners wanted and craved sex, but not with each other. If it is both partners who feel this way, it may be a fairly easy situation to work around, as long as they allowed each other to get that satisfaction from somewhere else.
The social stigma of being in a relationship with no sex would likely be something very difficult to get over. Especially if one partner wanted to have sex with the other. (think about it, your friend tells you they and their bf don’t have sex,…is your first reaction “oh, ok” ? probably not. More than likely your first reaction is something like “oh..something is wrong in their relationship” or “that relationship isn’t going to last” This opinion usually feels even more valid if you learn that one or the other of them wants to have sex with the other) It would take a strong and confident couple who didn’t mind not being one of the crowd to be able to not really care about what anyone else thought about their relationship, to be able to handle that type of relationship.
The situation would be especially tricky, would be if one or both partners were sexual, but partner A was not sexually attracted to partner B, though partner B was attracted to partner A. I still am very confident that this relationship could work (as a romantic relationship), but it would take a lot of work and emotional maturity. Both partners would need the allowance to have a sexual relationship with someone else. Partner B would also probably need a lot of reassurance that they level of love in the relationship was still very high, and the relationship was still worth being in, even without the sexual aspect that they desire.
I think the best advice that I would give to a couple in this situation (if they asked for it) would be that they need to establish many ROMANTIC activities to keep their relationship romantic, and loving, and not “just” a friendship (because what is a relationship with no sex and no romance… it is a friendship, wouldn’t you agree? Depending on how close the people are, and what aspects of their life they share, it may be a very very very incredibly, awesomely close friendship, but it is a friendship) This may take quite a bit of thought, depending on how physical the people want to be with each other. Their romantic activities might include something as non-physical as a special date night (candle lit dinner and a movie does not need to involve physical activity to be romantic) or it may involve things that are as physical as they are comfortable being with each other. (a night of back rubs? Taking a walk through the park holding hands? Perhaps kissing and/ or “making out” if they are both comfortable with that?) Point being, they should make a serious effort to do things that they both feel are romantic, as often as possible, to keep their relationship a romantic relationship, as opposed to a friendship.
-unless, of course, they decide that they are comfortable with having a relationship that is not romantic, and is a friendship instead.
I would also suggest that the couple establish some hobbies or activities that they do with each other, and only with each other. It doesn’t really matter what these activities are, they can be something romantic or not, they just need to be something that they both enjoy, and that they do ONLY with each other. These activities also do not have to stay the same forever, they can change, if one or both of the partners want them to, and agree on what the change will be. I think what is important is that the couple has a few activities that they both enjoy, and that they share with only each other. (side note: this would be a good thing for any couple –or trio, etc- to establish just for the bond that it will create)
In summary, no, a romantic relationship does not need to involve sex, the same way that sex does not need to involve romance. Sex can enhance a romantic relationship, just like romance can enhance sex.
16 August 2008
12 April 2008
A Rant About Jealousy
“Sociologists have demonstrated that cultural beliefs and values play an important role in determining what triggers jealousy and what constitutes socially acceptable expressions of jealousy.”
“Parrott makes use of the cause of jealousy to define it. He says “jealousy is an emotion experienced when a person is threatened by the loss of an important relation with another person” (Parrot, 2001, p. 313). After, he defines it also as “a type of anxious insecurity following from the perception of threat to a relation” which sustains the jealous’ self (Parrot, 2001, p. 314). Differently, Prinz (2004, p. 93) says that jealousy is a “nonbasic emotion”, meaning that “it is combination of basic emotions with other mental states that are not emotions”. His statement has a foundation on the concept of basic and nonbasic emotions, which he takes from Plutchik. Prinz (2004, p. 93) suggests that jealousy “contains anger, sadness, disgust” (basic emotions),”
“Love comes always with a touch of possessiveness. If possessiveness predominates among all other traits of love, jealousy becomes “ethically unjustifiable” because it “involves treating the other person as a possession” (Goldie, 2000, p. 232).”
“Possessiveness is necessary for jealousy, for as it is always present either as a degenerate aspect of love or as an independent trait. But, without a menace threatening the proximity with the lover, jealousy cannot occur. So the couple possessiveness – fear of loss seems to include the essence of jealousy. Once jealousy starts off, it evolves further, being the origin of thoughts and actions which are still part of the experience of jealousy. So the two character of jealousy found till now are not sufficient to define jealousy completely. The discussion about the relation between the jealous person and rival tries to investigate what happens after jealousy is generated. In this second phase, the jealous person has an active role and factors like his character and his emotional strength become important.”
“There are two issues in favour of a cultural or social origin of jealousy. The first is that the narrative from which jealousy arises can be in great part made by the imagination. Imagination is strongly affected by the culture a person is inserted in. The reasoning method, the way one is inclined to infer thought or conclusions on facts, the way one perceive some situations depends strongly on cultural context.”
“Moreover, consider the influence that stereotypes can have in the way we evaluate other people. Think of a new colleague of you wife; you can be jealous just because he is, for example, Italian and “You know what they say about Italians…”. You expressed a judgement on a person based on no facts or experience, just on a general prejudice. This judgement is sufficient to cause jealousy.”
“The characteristics that can put off jealousy are “chastity and modesty, that are artificial virtues, arising from education and the voluntary conventions of men, and the interests of society” (Goldie after Hume, 2000, p. 230). Besides, it is hard to find any natural characteristics that would put off jealousy. If it is possible to assume that the remedy for jealousy must have the same nature of jealousy, then it is possible to conclude that jealousy has a social origin.”
“Education and social context cannot act on the instinctive drive to some jealous feeling. But it has been shown that jealousy is not merely the feeling of a simple emotion. A rational elaboration, influenced by social conventions, imagination and personal character comes along with the instinctive push. Its role is of the same importance. There is not a temporal sequence where one of these two traits of jealousy comes first and the other follows. On the contrary, we could imagine that the instinct of jealousy is “surrounded” by some cultural reasons that could lead to jealousy and some social ways to react to it. In turn, those reactions can be partly instinctive, because they depend on what has been defined as the emotional strength of a person.”
“Polyamory groups encourage the replacement of jealousy with compersion, or empathizing with a lover's joy with another lover.”
“Anthropologists have claimed that jealousy varies across cultures. Cultural learning can influence the situations that trigger jealousy and the manner in which jealousy is expressed. Attitudes toward jealousy can also change within a culture over time.”
The above quotes are from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy
The entire Wiki article is interesting, and I recommend reading it.
Especially because, like a good propagandist, I only quoted parts of the article that lead to the point that I want to make. (haha ;) )
For those of you that have heard me rant on this topic before, you know that my main point is not that jealousy is bad and wrong and people shouldn’t feel it. I don’t think it’s a bad and wrong thing to feel, I think it’s something that all of us feel to some degree at some point in our lives, and I even think it can be a good thing to feel if it leads to introspection and the decision to better yourself and strengthen your relationships.
My big problems with jealousy are the ways that we consider acceptable ways to react to jealousy, and that we consider jealousy a valid justification for completely irrational acts, most often very violent ones. It seems that it’s perfectly acceptable to react to jealousy with blame toward your partner and your perceived rival, with anger toward your partner, and often with violence toward your perceived rival, with an attempt to control your partner’s actions and the actions of your perceived rival, and a complete lack of responsibility and ownership of your own emotions.
Consider a “typical” situation where one partner becomes jealous:
You’re at a party, you go to use the bathroom, when you come back, your partner is chatting and laughing with someone of the gender they prefer to date. You begin to feel jealous.
Consider the responses that most people have, and that are found to be perfectly acceptable:
You walk over to your partner and put your arm around them to show your perceived rival that this person is with you. You may move to turn your partner toward you and away from the other, or move so you are slightly between your partner and the other, thereby making sure your partner’s focus is primarily on you. Later, you ask your partner who that was, how they know them, if they have ever had a relationship with them, perhaps if they find the person attractive. You may sulk, tell your partner you don’t want them hanging around that person anymore, say bad things about that person’s appearance, attitude, behavior, personality. You may tell your partner that they made you jealous, you may tell them that they shouldn’t be talking to other people of the gender that they prefer to date now that they are dating you. Maybe you’ll even get in a huge argument about it.
These are considered very very gentle and low-grade, perfectly acceptable reactions to jealousy.
Consider a second situation:
You and your partner are at a bar, you go to the bathroom, when you come back, your partner is hugging a person of the gender that they prefer to date. You begin to feel jealous. You may react to this with the same reactions stated in the first scenario.
Or you may react in some of the following ways:
Perhaps you rush up and pull your partner out of the others arms and demand to know who the other is, you might come up and just punch the other out, without asking anything at all, perhaps you come up and threaten the other’s life.
All of these things are perfectly “acceptable” in our society. If you tell your friends about this situation, they will tell you that the ways you reacted are perfectly acceptable, and you’re completely “right” in your idea that your partner shouldn’t be talking to other people of the gender they are attracted to. Your partner will probably find these reactions acceptable, and feel guilt for doing something that made you jealous.
The majority of our society will not say what I am about to say, and that is what bothers me the most about jealousy in our society.
It’s ok for people to feel some jealousy in certain situations. I don’t mean to tell anyone that it isn’t.
What isn’t ok is for us to blame our partners for the jealousy and to hold them accountable for us feeling jealous or not.
Jealousy, like all of our other emotions is ours and ours alone. When we feel jealous, we need to take a deep long look at ourselves and figure out what the root of the jealousy is. The root is not the event that brought on the feeling. The root is the fear or insecurity that the event brings up in ourselves. We don’t need to ask ourselves what made us jealous, we need to ask ourselves WHY it made us jealous. What are we afraid will happen when our partner acts in a way that brings up jealousy in us? Why are we afraid of that? Do we have true and valid reason to fear whatever it is that we fear with this partner?
We should not BLAME our partner for OUR jealousy caused by OUR fear and OUR insecurity.
It is not okay to try to control your partner’s behavior because you feel jealous. If your partner consistently cheats on their commitments to you, than it is time to find a new partner. If your partner does not cheat on their commitments to you, then their actions are perfectly fine, and your REACTION is the problem. If you have insecurity issues, its acceptable and understandable to ask your partner to help you work through those things, and come to some agreements with your partner that BOTH of you find acceptable that will help you with your comfort level. But your insecurities are YOUR issues, and YOU need to work on them, and work through them.
It is absolutely not ok, in any way, for you to try to control a third person’s behavior. A person who is not in a relationship with you, and has no commitments to you. It is not okay to try to control that person’s behavior whether by violence, by threat, or even by simple request. This other person, your perceived rival, has no relationship commitments to you whatsoever, and you have no right, in any way to ask them to change their behaviors. You also have no right to ask your partner to ask the other person to change their behavior for you.
Above all, jealousy absolutely is not, in any way, justification to inflict violence upon another. Even if you walk in and find your partner engaged in a wild and passionate sexual encounter with someone else, that does not give you the right to react violently against your partner or ESPECIALLY against the other person. It would be, of course, perfectly reasonable to end your relationship with your partner. But it is in NO WAY acceptable for you to enact physical violence against your partner when they have taken none against you. It is absolutely in no way reasonable for you to enact physical violence against another person (the person your partner is with) who has no sort of commitment to you, and who has not enacted physical violence against you.
I know full well that people are going to disagree with me on that point, many people have.
So let’s call on our childhoods, or for those of us who are parents, let’s call on what we teach our children.
Personally, the lesson I learned from my parents, and my teachers and just about all other adults, and the lesson I teach my children is that when they see someone playing with one of their toys, it’s not okay for them to beat up that person to get their toy back, and if it is not their toy, it is certainly not okay for them to demand that no one else play with it. That may compare a partner to an object to be possessed a little too much.
What if child A has a best friend (child B) who has made another best friend (child C), and child A fears that child B will spend less time with him/her because of child C, would it be okay for the child A to try to control the behavior of one or both of the other children if that were the case, or take violence against them? I’m sure Child A would be feeling quite a lot of jealousy and insecurity about Child C and Child B’s relationship.
Going by the logic and justification we use in relationships as adults, it would be okay for the Child A to demand that Child B not be friends with the Child C or to demand or request that child C not be friends with Child B. It would also be acceptable, and justified for Child A to enact physical violence against one or both of the other children, even to the point of hospitalization or death.
Are these the lessons we teach our children? Are these the lessons we learned as children? Why do we consider these things acceptable as adults?
“Parrott makes use of the cause of jealousy to define it. He says “jealousy is an emotion experienced when a person is threatened by the loss of an important relation with another person” (Parrot, 2001, p. 313). After, he defines it also as “a type of anxious insecurity following from the perception of threat to a relation” which sustains the jealous’ self (Parrot, 2001, p. 314). Differently, Prinz (2004, p. 93) says that jealousy is a “nonbasic emotion”, meaning that “it is combination of basic emotions with other mental states that are not emotions”. His statement has a foundation on the concept of basic and nonbasic emotions, which he takes from Plutchik. Prinz (2004, p. 93) suggests that jealousy “contains anger, sadness, disgust” (basic emotions),”
“Love comes always with a touch of possessiveness. If possessiveness predominates among all other traits of love, jealousy becomes “ethically unjustifiable” because it “involves treating the other person as a possession” (Goldie, 2000, p. 232).”
“Possessiveness is necessary for jealousy, for as it is always present either as a degenerate aspect of love or as an independent trait. But, without a menace threatening the proximity with the lover, jealousy cannot occur. So the couple possessiveness – fear of loss seems to include the essence of jealousy. Once jealousy starts off, it evolves further, being the origin of thoughts and actions which are still part of the experience of jealousy. So the two character of jealousy found till now are not sufficient to define jealousy completely. The discussion about the relation between the jealous person and rival tries to investigate what happens after jealousy is generated. In this second phase, the jealous person has an active role and factors like his character and his emotional strength become important.”
“There are two issues in favour of a cultural or social origin of jealousy. The first is that the narrative from which jealousy arises can be in great part made by the imagination. Imagination is strongly affected by the culture a person is inserted in. The reasoning method, the way one is inclined to infer thought or conclusions on facts, the way one perceive some situations depends strongly on cultural context.”
“Moreover, consider the influence that stereotypes can have in the way we evaluate other people. Think of a new colleague of you wife; you can be jealous just because he is, for example, Italian and “You know what they say about Italians…”. You expressed a judgement on a person based on no facts or experience, just on a general prejudice. This judgement is sufficient to cause jealousy.”
“The characteristics that can put off jealousy are “chastity and modesty, that are artificial virtues, arising from education and the voluntary conventions of men, and the interests of society” (Goldie after Hume, 2000, p. 230). Besides, it is hard to find any natural characteristics that would put off jealousy. If it is possible to assume that the remedy for jealousy must have the same nature of jealousy, then it is possible to conclude that jealousy has a social origin.”
“Education and social context cannot act on the instinctive drive to some jealous feeling. But it has been shown that jealousy is not merely the feeling of a simple emotion. A rational elaboration, influenced by social conventions, imagination and personal character comes along with the instinctive push. Its role is of the same importance. There is not a temporal sequence where one of these two traits of jealousy comes first and the other follows. On the contrary, we could imagine that the instinct of jealousy is “surrounded” by some cultural reasons that could lead to jealousy and some social ways to react to it. In turn, those reactions can be partly instinctive, because they depend on what has been defined as the emotional strength of a person.”
“Polyamory groups encourage the replacement of jealousy with compersion, or empathizing with a lover's joy with another lover.”
“Anthropologists have claimed that jealousy varies across cultures. Cultural learning can influence the situations that trigger jealousy and the manner in which jealousy is expressed. Attitudes toward jealousy can also change within a culture over time.”
The above quotes are from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy
The entire Wiki article is interesting, and I recommend reading it.
Especially because, like a good propagandist, I only quoted parts of the article that lead to the point that I want to make. (haha ;) )
For those of you that have heard me rant on this topic before, you know that my main point is not that jealousy is bad and wrong and people shouldn’t feel it. I don’t think it’s a bad and wrong thing to feel, I think it’s something that all of us feel to some degree at some point in our lives, and I even think it can be a good thing to feel if it leads to introspection and the decision to better yourself and strengthen your relationships.
My big problems with jealousy are the ways that we consider acceptable ways to react to jealousy, and that we consider jealousy a valid justification for completely irrational acts, most often very violent ones. It seems that it’s perfectly acceptable to react to jealousy with blame toward your partner and your perceived rival, with anger toward your partner, and often with violence toward your perceived rival, with an attempt to control your partner’s actions and the actions of your perceived rival, and a complete lack of responsibility and ownership of your own emotions.
Consider a “typical” situation where one partner becomes jealous:
You’re at a party, you go to use the bathroom, when you come back, your partner is chatting and laughing with someone of the gender they prefer to date. You begin to feel jealous.
Consider the responses that most people have, and that are found to be perfectly acceptable:
You walk over to your partner and put your arm around them to show your perceived rival that this person is with you. You may move to turn your partner toward you and away from the other, or move so you are slightly between your partner and the other, thereby making sure your partner’s focus is primarily on you. Later, you ask your partner who that was, how they know them, if they have ever had a relationship with them, perhaps if they find the person attractive. You may sulk, tell your partner you don’t want them hanging around that person anymore, say bad things about that person’s appearance, attitude, behavior, personality. You may tell your partner that they made you jealous, you may tell them that they shouldn’t be talking to other people of the gender that they prefer to date now that they are dating you. Maybe you’ll even get in a huge argument about it.
These are considered very very gentle and low-grade, perfectly acceptable reactions to jealousy.
Consider a second situation:
You and your partner are at a bar, you go to the bathroom, when you come back, your partner is hugging a person of the gender that they prefer to date. You begin to feel jealous. You may react to this with the same reactions stated in the first scenario.
Or you may react in some of the following ways:
Perhaps you rush up and pull your partner out of the others arms and demand to know who the other is, you might come up and just punch the other out, without asking anything at all, perhaps you come up and threaten the other’s life.
All of these things are perfectly “acceptable” in our society. If you tell your friends about this situation, they will tell you that the ways you reacted are perfectly acceptable, and you’re completely “right” in your idea that your partner shouldn’t be talking to other people of the gender they are attracted to. Your partner will probably find these reactions acceptable, and feel guilt for doing something that made you jealous.
The majority of our society will not say what I am about to say, and that is what bothers me the most about jealousy in our society.
It’s ok for people to feel some jealousy in certain situations. I don’t mean to tell anyone that it isn’t.
What isn’t ok is for us to blame our partners for the jealousy and to hold them accountable for us feeling jealous or not.
Jealousy, like all of our other emotions is ours and ours alone. When we feel jealous, we need to take a deep long look at ourselves and figure out what the root of the jealousy is. The root is not the event that brought on the feeling. The root is the fear or insecurity that the event brings up in ourselves. We don’t need to ask ourselves what made us jealous, we need to ask ourselves WHY it made us jealous. What are we afraid will happen when our partner acts in a way that brings up jealousy in us? Why are we afraid of that? Do we have true and valid reason to fear whatever it is that we fear with this partner?
We should not BLAME our partner for OUR jealousy caused by OUR fear and OUR insecurity.
It is not okay to try to control your partner’s behavior because you feel jealous. If your partner consistently cheats on their commitments to you, than it is time to find a new partner. If your partner does not cheat on their commitments to you, then their actions are perfectly fine, and your REACTION is the problem. If you have insecurity issues, its acceptable and understandable to ask your partner to help you work through those things, and come to some agreements with your partner that BOTH of you find acceptable that will help you with your comfort level. But your insecurities are YOUR issues, and YOU need to work on them, and work through them.
It is absolutely not ok, in any way, for you to try to control a third person’s behavior. A person who is not in a relationship with you, and has no commitments to you. It is not okay to try to control that person’s behavior whether by violence, by threat, or even by simple request. This other person, your perceived rival, has no relationship commitments to you whatsoever, and you have no right, in any way to ask them to change their behaviors. You also have no right to ask your partner to ask the other person to change their behavior for you.
Above all, jealousy absolutely is not, in any way, justification to inflict violence upon another. Even if you walk in and find your partner engaged in a wild and passionate sexual encounter with someone else, that does not give you the right to react violently against your partner or ESPECIALLY against the other person. It would be, of course, perfectly reasonable to end your relationship with your partner. But it is in NO WAY acceptable for you to enact physical violence against your partner when they have taken none against you. It is absolutely in no way reasonable for you to enact physical violence against another person (the person your partner is with) who has no sort of commitment to you, and who has not enacted physical violence against you.
I know full well that people are going to disagree with me on that point, many people have.
So let’s call on our childhoods, or for those of us who are parents, let’s call on what we teach our children.
Personally, the lesson I learned from my parents, and my teachers and just about all other adults, and the lesson I teach my children is that when they see someone playing with one of their toys, it’s not okay for them to beat up that person to get their toy back, and if it is not their toy, it is certainly not okay for them to demand that no one else play with it. That may compare a partner to an object to be possessed a little too much.
What if child A has a best friend (child B) who has made another best friend (child C), and child A fears that child B will spend less time with him/her because of child C, would it be okay for the child A to try to control the behavior of one or both of the other children if that were the case, or take violence against them? I’m sure Child A would be feeling quite a lot of jealousy and insecurity about Child C and Child B’s relationship.
Going by the logic and justification we use in relationships as adults, it would be okay for the Child A to demand that Child B not be friends with the Child C or to demand or request that child C not be friends with Child B. It would also be acceptable, and justified for Child A to enact physical violence against one or both of the other children, even to the point of hospitalization or death.
Are these the lessons we teach our children? Are these the lessons we learned as children? Why do we consider these things acceptable as adults?
01 April 2008
My Personal History of Polyamory
My walk down the poly path began when I was about 14 years old, and in love for the first time.
My boyfriend at that time was friends with a lot of people, some of them being girls, and some of those girls being ones that I had previously been friends with, but had since had a falling out with. These specific girls were the ones that caused the situation that led to the deep thoughts about love and relationships and jealousy that eventually led to my identifying as polyamorous.
My mother, who I respected and listened to (maybe a little too much) DID have a problem with my boyfriend being friends with these girls that I didn’t get along with. She discussed this at great length with me, and eventually talked me into giving my boyfriend a choice “them or me”. My boyfriend chose me, and I questioned the decision to ask him to choose before I even asked him to do it.
I did not feel jealous over these girls, and I did not see any truly valid reason for him to not be friends with them. After he stopped being friends with him, I watched him hurt over losing friends that he cared about, and I worried that he would then hide friendship with them, and just not tell me about it. I realized that my mother had a view on relationships that many many people share, but that I just didn’t think was right.
These are the questions I asked myself:
Why shouldn’t our partners be allowed to be friends with people of the opposite gender (or with people who are of the gender that our partner is attracted to)?
Is it because they then have more potential for cheating on us? If we fear that, we clearly don’t trust our partner as much as we should, and if we don’t trust them to uphold the commitments they have made to us, why are we in a relationship with that person?
Why is it not only, ok, but fully expected and accepted that we let our own insecurities, and our own jealousy be a factor in controlling who our partner meets and knows and befriends?
How is it our place to decide who our partner has in their life?
If we love someone, truly love them, why do we want to hurt them by limiting their friends, and making it so people that they like or care about they cannot be friends with?
If we truly love someone, why do we want their happiness only if their happiness is caused by us?
Those questions led to these answers:
If I don’t trust my partner enough for s/he to be friends with people of the gender that they are attracted to, then I don’t want to be in “a relationship” with that person anyway.
My insecurities are my own, and I should not be asking my partner to give up things that they truly want based upon the fact that I am not fully secure in myself. I want my partner to help me work through my insecurities, and that is what truly needs to happen, I need to work through them, I don’t need to make other people base their actions on the fact that I am not fully secure in myself, Or in the relationship. And if I am not feeling fully secure in the relationship, than that is something my partner and I need to work on for the sake of our relationship. Not something that needs to be basically ignored or accepted.
It is not my place to decide who my partner chooses to be close to in their life. My partner should be allowed the freedoms to care about whoever they do care about, and I should not try to control or decide who my partner should care about.
If I truly love someone, I want them to be happy. Period. I don’t want them to be happy as long as I caused that happiness or have something to do with it. I want them to be truly truly happy, even if I have nothing at all to do with it, and even if that happiness is created by their relationship with another person. and if my partner would truly be happier being in a relationship with someone other than me, then I want them to do that. If I truly love them, then I want them to be with whatever person(s) they feel the most joy and passion and happiness with, even if its not me.
And finally,
I don’t want my partner to have to feel the desire, or make the decision to have to hide their happiness, or their friendships from me. I want my partner to want to share their happiness with me, and to know that I am supportive and feel joy when they are happy, even if I did not cause it. And I want my partner to feel like they can tell me anything and talk to me about anything.
I didn’t come to all of these conclusions while I was still with this boyfriend, they were decisions that came over some time.
By the time I was about 16 (probably 15 and some months) I had begun trying to live my life, or at least run my relationships according to what I believed.
I, of course, never met anyone who agreed with me about any of these things, and I began to question myself.
Not question whether I was “right” or “wrong”, because I felt I was “right” with every fiber of my being. What I questioned was whether or not something was wrong with me mentally.
Perhaps I was a little sociopathic. Why was it that I didn’t “feel” things the way other people seemed to?
I didn’t “feel” jealousy the way everyone else did. People often told me that I must not feel jealousy the way they do, because they cant help but react to it the way they do. These days, I don’t believe that is the truth at all, I feel jealous and threatened by certain things, just the same as everyone else, but I don’t CHOOSE to react to it the same way. I don’t agree with our society about what actions/reactions are acceptable when a person feels jealousy. I am a confident person, and don’t feel threatened all that easily. When I feel jealous or feel threatened, I look within myself for the cause of those feelings, and attempt to resolve them within myself, unlike most people.
I was often accused of not feeling love the way other people did, or of never really feeling love at all. But with that, as well, I have realized that I feel it the same ways everyone else does, and I love just as much as everyone else (a lot more than a lot of people) I just don’t believe that some actions that society finds acceptable between people who love each other really are acceptable at all.
I feel the same things everyone else feels, but my principles, my beliefs on what are the RIGHT ways to act, and RIGHT ways to treat people, especially those we love, will almost always win out for me. Even if my gut impulse is to act in a way that I don’t feel is right and true for myself or toward the person I love.
I have also discovered that many people do agree with me about the ways I feel you should treat the people you love, and the ways you should handle jealousy and insecurities, but the ways I think it should be done, aren’t “easy”, they aren’t what a persons gut reaction might be, and they require taking a step back and looking into yourself in what is often a long moment of deep introspection. Many people aren’t willing to do this.
I’m getting ahead of myself…
After a few years of not meeting anyone else that agreed with my views at all, and wondering if I would never meet anyone who did, or if there was something wrong with me mentally, I consciously decided that I needed to try harder to see things the way other people did. Right around this time (I was 19) I met the most jealous and possessive guy I have ever known, and married him.
I was quite convinced that he and I could learn from each other, and meet somewhere in the middle on these issues. (I was wrong)
There were many reasons why we were not well suited to each other, but our relationship and love and jealousy views were certainly high on the list.
In addition to these things, I had known I was bi since I knew I was interested in people romantically at all. (when I began having crushes on people, as a little girl, I had crushes on both boys and girls, and never saw anything wrong with it) but I had had few romantic interactions with girls, and none that ended well, by the time I got married.
So, long story short, my relationship with my husband made me feel like I was denying parts of myself, and he and I were not “learning” how to be ”normal” from each other, like I had thought we would.
I am not going to go into all of the other issues that we had in our marriage, but I do want to go into the ones that relate to polyamory.
After a couple of years of my convincing my husand that the desire had nothing to do with me not being "satisfied" with him, my husband and I agreed to try to find a girl to invite into our relationship. For a while, I truly thought he liked the idea of this, but it became clear that he did not and he just feared that it would lead to me wanting to have other men in my life. (know that he knew all of my views right from the beginning). For a while, I also thought that this situation would be an acceptable comprimise for me between my beliefs on relationships and love, and my husbands beliefs on what marriage should be like.
We never had any experiences with another girl, and never cheated on each other.
At some point, I met other people that felt the same way about relationships as I did, and learned terms like “open relationship” and “polyamory”.
Knowing that I wasn’t crazy, and that there were other people who felt the way I did, I became more disturbed by the fact that I was not being true to myself and my beliefs in my relationship, and I tried to introduce my husband to the idea of open relationships, and to the people I was meeting who practiced such things.
After a long time of discussing these ideas, my husband agreed to an open marriage with a “don’t ask/ don’t tell” policy. (he didn’t ask me what I was doing, and I didn’t tell him) . I felt there was something wrong with this policy right from the start, but I also felt that it would be an okay stepping stone toward full openness and honesty and sharing with each other.
I had a single weekend when I slept with a close friend of mine, and then realized that my husband and my relationship needed to be mended in all other ways before it was strong enough to handle being an open marriage. (little did I know, our relationship was already over as far as my husband was concerned)
Due to our policy, I did not tell my husband anything about my weekend, and just made the vow within myself to do everything I could to try to make our relationship stronger. It seemed like nothing I did helped, and my husband was unwilling to put any effort into our relationship.
Eventually, he did ask me if I had done anything with anyone else, and I didn’t know what to do. Lie? Stick to my end of our policy? Or just tell him?
I lied. I felt terrible about it, but I did it.
Then, one night, I was talking on the phone to a friend of mine, telling my friend about the situation and asking for their advice. My husband was listening in on the conversation on the other side of the door (this type of behavior would be one of those “issues” that I am not going to go into)
After he heard that I had acted on the freedoms of our open relationship, and then lied to him about it, he told me that him agreeing to the open marriage was to test my fidelity, and I had failed, and our relationship was over, period.
After my divorce, I went through a series of relationships, most of which began with me really feeling like with THIS person I could be monogamous. With THIS person it would be different. I could do it, I could be “normal” I could have a “normal” relationship. And I could, for about 3 months.
After that I would feel like I was denying myself. I would feel like I was compromising things that I truly and deeply believed, and I would try to introduce my partner to the concept of polyamory. It never went very well.
Sometimes it would end the relationship immediately. Sometimes the person would think they could do it, but once the freedoms were acted upon, they would realize they couldn’t.
I finally met Andy, who agreed with my views, but we wrote each other off as potential partners for other reasons. Eventually, Andy and I did end up in a relationship (and we are still together -over 2 years now)
Now you would think everything would be easy after finally being in a relationship that matches my ideals, but it comes with its own difficulties.
Andy and I are not perfectly matched in every way. We have most of our difficulties in the areas of affection and physical intimacy.
All of the problems that I had when being single and dating are still there, (with other people)
More issues that I had never even thought of crop up with dating other people, while already in a relationship.
Point being, polyamory didn’t suddenly become easy once I was with someone who identified as poly.
It has been good though.
Recently, I began a relationship with Kevin, who also identifies as poly, and so far, it has been wonderful, and I have high hopes for the future.
The one thing that surprises me about maintaining two serious relaitonships is how easy it really is. It seems like it would be a lot more difficult, but the only really difficult thing about it is the fact that there are only 24 hours in a day, and some of those hours have to be taken up by work, friends, sleeping, errands, and everyhting else.
That’s my story so far…
My boyfriend at that time was friends with a lot of people, some of them being girls, and some of those girls being ones that I had previously been friends with, but had since had a falling out with. These specific girls were the ones that caused the situation that led to the deep thoughts about love and relationships and jealousy that eventually led to my identifying as polyamorous.
My mother, who I respected and listened to (maybe a little too much) DID have a problem with my boyfriend being friends with these girls that I didn’t get along with. She discussed this at great length with me, and eventually talked me into giving my boyfriend a choice “them or me”. My boyfriend chose me, and I questioned the decision to ask him to choose before I even asked him to do it.
I did not feel jealous over these girls, and I did not see any truly valid reason for him to not be friends with them. After he stopped being friends with him, I watched him hurt over losing friends that he cared about, and I worried that he would then hide friendship with them, and just not tell me about it. I realized that my mother had a view on relationships that many many people share, but that I just didn’t think was right.
These are the questions I asked myself:
Why shouldn’t our partners be allowed to be friends with people of the opposite gender (or with people who are of the gender that our partner is attracted to)?
Is it because they then have more potential for cheating on us? If we fear that, we clearly don’t trust our partner as much as we should, and if we don’t trust them to uphold the commitments they have made to us, why are we in a relationship with that person?
Why is it not only, ok, but fully expected and accepted that we let our own insecurities, and our own jealousy be a factor in controlling who our partner meets and knows and befriends?
How is it our place to decide who our partner has in their life?
If we love someone, truly love them, why do we want to hurt them by limiting their friends, and making it so people that they like or care about they cannot be friends with?
If we truly love someone, why do we want their happiness only if their happiness is caused by us?
Those questions led to these answers:
If I don’t trust my partner enough for s/he to be friends with people of the gender that they are attracted to, then I don’t want to be in “a relationship” with that person anyway.
My insecurities are my own, and I should not be asking my partner to give up things that they truly want based upon the fact that I am not fully secure in myself. I want my partner to help me work through my insecurities, and that is what truly needs to happen, I need to work through them, I don’t need to make other people base their actions on the fact that I am not fully secure in myself, Or in the relationship. And if I am not feeling fully secure in the relationship, than that is something my partner and I need to work on for the sake of our relationship. Not something that needs to be basically ignored or accepted.
It is not my place to decide who my partner chooses to be close to in their life. My partner should be allowed the freedoms to care about whoever they do care about, and I should not try to control or decide who my partner should care about.
If I truly love someone, I want them to be happy. Period. I don’t want them to be happy as long as I caused that happiness or have something to do with it. I want them to be truly truly happy, even if I have nothing at all to do with it, and even if that happiness is created by their relationship with another person. and if my partner would truly be happier being in a relationship with someone other than me, then I want them to do that. If I truly love them, then I want them to be with whatever person(s) they feel the most joy and passion and happiness with, even if its not me.
And finally,
I don’t want my partner to have to feel the desire, or make the decision to have to hide their happiness, or their friendships from me. I want my partner to want to share their happiness with me, and to know that I am supportive and feel joy when they are happy, even if I did not cause it. And I want my partner to feel like they can tell me anything and talk to me about anything.
I didn’t come to all of these conclusions while I was still with this boyfriend, they were decisions that came over some time.
By the time I was about 16 (probably 15 and some months) I had begun trying to live my life, or at least run my relationships according to what I believed.
I, of course, never met anyone who agreed with me about any of these things, and I began to question myself.
Not question whether I was “right” or “wrong”, because I felt I was “right” with every fiber of my being. What I questioned was whether or not something was wrong with me mentally.
Perhaps I was a little sociopathic. Why was it that I didn’t “feel” things the way other people seemed to?
I didn’t “feel” jealousy the way everyone else did. People often told me that I must not feel jealousy the way they do, because they cant help but react to it the way they do. These days, I don’t believe that is the truth at all, I feel jealous and threatened by certain things, just the same as everyone else, but I don’t CHOOSE to react to it the same way. I don’t agree with our society about what actions/reactions are acceptable when a person feels jealousy. I am a confident person, and don’t feel threatened all that easily. When I feel jealous or feel threatened, I look within myself for the cause of those feelings, and attempt to resolve them within myself, unlike most people.
I was often accused of not feeling love the way other people did, or of never really feeling love at all. But with that, as well, I have realized that I feel it the same ways everyone else does, and I love just as much as everyone else (a lot more than a lot of people) I just don’t believe that some actions that society finds acceptable between people who love each other really are acceptable at all.
I feel the same things everyone else feels, but my principles, my beliefs on what are the RIGHT ways to act, and RIGHT ways to treat people, especially those we love, will almost always win out for me. Even if my gut impulse is to act in a way that I don’t feel is right and true for myself or toward the person I love.
I have also discovered that many people do agree with me about the ways I feel you should treat the people you love, and the ways you should handle jealousy and insecurities, but the ways I think it should be done, aren’t “easy”, they aren’t what a persons gut reaction might be, and they require taking a step back and looking into yourself in what is often a long moment of deep introspection. Many people aren’t willing to do this.
I’m getting ahead of myself…
After a few years of not meeting anyone else that agreed with my views at all, and wondering if I would never meet anyone who did, or if there was something wrong with me mentally, I consciously decided that I needed to try harder to see things the way other people did. Right around this time (I was 19) I met the most jealous and possessive guy I have ever known, and married him.
I was quite convinced that he and I could learn from each other, and meet somewhere in the middle on these issues. (I was wrong)
There were many reasons why we were not well suited to each other, but our relationship and love and jealousy views were certainly high on the list.
In addition to these things, I had known I was bi since I knew I was interested in people romantically at all. (when I began having crushes on people, as a little girl, I had crushes on both boys and girls, and never saw anything wrong with it) but I had had few romantic interactions with girls, and none that ended well, by the time I got married.
So, long story short, my relationship with my husband made me feel like I was denying parts of myself, and he and I were not “learning” how to be ”normal” from each other, like I had thought we would.
I am not going to go into all of the other issues that we had in our marriage, but I do want to go into the ones that relate to polyamory.
After a couple of years of my convincing my husand that the desire had nothing to do with me not being "satisfied" with him, my husband and I agreed to try to find a girl to invite into our relationship. For a while, I truly thought he liked the idea of this, but it became clear that he did not and he just feared that it would lead to me wanting to have other men in my life. (know that he knew all of my views right from the beginning). For a while, I also thought that this situation would be an acceptable comprimise for me between my beliefs on relationships and love, and my husbands beliefs on what marriage should be like.
We never had any experiences with another girl, and never cheated on each other.
At some point, I met other people that felt the same way about relationships as I did, and learned terms like “open relationship” and “polyamory”.
Knowing that I wasn’t crazy, and that there were other people who felt the way I did, I became more disturbed by the fact that I was not being true to myself and my beliefs in my relationship, and I tried to introduce my husband to the idea of open relationships, and to the people I was meeting who practiced such things.
After a long time of discussing these ideas, my husband agreed to an open marriage with a “don’t ask/ don’t tell” policy. (he didn’t ask me what I was doing, and I didn’t tell him) . I felt there was something wrong with this policy right from the start, but I also felt that it would be an okay stepping stone toward full openness and honesty and sharing with each other.
I had a single weekend when I slept with a close friend of mine, and then realized that my husband and my relationship needed to be mended in all other ways before it was strong enough to handle being an open marriage. (little did I know, our relationship was already over as far as my husband was concerned)
Due to our policy, I did not tell my husband anything about my weekend, and just made the vow within myself to do everything I could to try to make our relationship stronger. It seemed like nothing I did helped, and my husband was unwilling to put any effort into our relationship.
Eventually, he did ask me if I had done anything with anyone else, and I didn’t know what to do. Lie? Stick to my end of our policy? Or just tell him?
I lied. I felt terrible about it, but I did it.
Then, one night, I was talking on the phone to a friend of mine, telling my friend about the situation and asking for their advice. My husband was listening in on the conversation on the other side of the door (this type of behavior would be one of those “issues” that I am not going to go into)
After he heard that I had acted on the freedoms of our open relationship, and then lied to him about it, he told me that him agreeing to the open marriage was to test my fidelity, and I had failed, and our relationship was over, period.
After my divorce, I went through a series of relationships, most of which began with me really feeling like with THIS person I could be monogamous. With THIS person it would be different. I could do it, I could be “normal” I could have a “normal” relationship. And I could, for about 3 months.
After that I would feel like I was denying myself. I would feel like I was compromising things that I truly and deeply believed, and I would try to introduce my partner to the concept of polyamory. It never went very well.
Sometimes it would end the relationship immediately. Sometimes the person would think they could do it, but once the freedoms were acted upon, they would realize they couldn’t.
I finally met Andy, who agreed with my views, but we wrote each other off as potential partners for other reasons. Eventually, Andy and I did end up in a relationship (and we are still together -over 2 years now)
Now you would think everything would be easy after finally being in a relationship that matches my ideals, but it comes with its own difficulties.
Andy and I are not perfectly matched in every way. We have most of our difficulties in the areas of affection and physical intimacy.
All of the problems that I had when being single and dating are still there, (with other people)
More issues that I had never even thought of crop up with dating other people, while already in a relationship.
Point being, polyamory didn’t suddenly become easy once I was with someone who identified as poly.
It has been good though.
Recently, I began a relationship with Kevin, who also identifies as poly, and so far, it has been wonderful, and I have high hopes for the future.
The one thing that surprises me about maintaining two serious relaitonships is how easy it really is. It seems like it would be a lot more difficult, but the only really difficult thing about it is the fact that there are only 24 hours in a day, and some of those hours have to be taken up by work, friends, sleeping, errands, and everyhting else.
That’s my story so far…
31 March 2008
Title Definition
I don’t necessarily think that all relationships need some kind of title. For the most part, as a matter of fact, I think that titles can put a lot of pressure and stress on a relationship. It can cause the partners in the relationship to be unnecessarily concerned with acting in a way that is fitting to their “title”.
The being said, I also I also think that titles are useful to define a relationship to others (those who are not in the relationship), and can also help establish or reinforce a sense of stability in the relationship for the partners.
So, I have given this a lot of thought, and here are how I define the different titles that I use:
1. “Dating”: dating simply means “someone I go on dates with”. It implies that I feel that I have a budding or potentially budding romantic and/ or sexual relationship with them, (though “dating does not always mean that there is a physical relationship). The term “dating” implies that the relationship is on a ‘more than friends” level, but not anything that is as specific or established as boyfriend/ girlfriend. It generally means that no commitments have been made, no titles have been specifically agreed upon, and that the relationship may or may not become more serious than it already is.
2. “Boyfriend/ Girlfriend”: first of all, I don’t use this term unless it has been agreed upon between myself and the other person. It implies that the relationship is romantic, and possibly sexual, and expected to be fairly long term. It usually means that I have made commitments to the person within myself, or discussed and agreed upon commitments for the relationship with the person.
3. “Life Partners”: this term is another that a partner and I would first agree upon. This term is used when a partner and I intend on being together “until….” (meaning that we expect to be together for a very long time). It means that we share and support each other in day to day things, such as our home, our finances, raising children, and the other day to day responsibilities of life. “life partners” comes with commitments not only about our romantic relationship, but also our day to day lives. It usually implies a romantic/ sexual relationship, but may not. Since "life partner" is not often understood by most people, I will often use "boyfriend/ girlfriend" in place of "life partner", when I dont feel like going into a full explaination of the relationship.
The being said, I also I also think that titles are useful to define a relationship to others (those who are not in the relationship), and can also help establish or reinforce a sense of stability in the relationship for the partners.
So, I have given this a lot of thought, and here are how I define the different titles that I use:
1. “Dating”: dating simply means “someone I go on dates with”. It implies that I feel that I have a budding or potentially budding romantic and/ or sexual relationship with them, (though “dating does not always mean that there is a physical relationship). The term “dating” implies that the relationship is on a ‘more than friends” level, but not anything that is as specific or established as boyfriend/ girlfriend. It generally means that no commitments have been made, no titles have been specifically agreed upon, and that the relationship may or may not become more serious than it already is.
2. “Boyfriend/ Girlfriend”: first of all, I don’t use this term unless it has been agreed upon between myself and the other person. It implies that the relationship is romantic, and possibly sexual, and expected to be fairly long term. It usually means that I have made commitments to the person within myself, or discussed and agreed upon commitments for the relationship with the person.
3. “Life Partners”: this term is another that a partner and I would first agree upon. This term is used when a partner and I intend on being together “until….” (meaning that we expect to be together for a very long time). It means that we share and support each other in day to day things, such as our home, our finances, raising children, and the other day to day responsibilities of life. “life partners” comes with commitments not only about our romantic relationship, but also our day to day lives. It usually implies a romantic/ sexual relationship, but may not. Since "life partner" is not often understood by most people, I will often use "boyfriend/ girlfriend" in place of "life partner", when I dont feel like going into a full explaination of the relationship.
28 March 2008
The Hardest parts about Polyamory
These are the hardest parts for me:
1. Asking my partner for reassurance when I feel insecure when they are interested in a new person
a. I don’t want my partner to see me as weak
b. I don’t want my partner to see me as an insecure person
c. I don’t want my partner to think less of me because I am not completely confident in myself at all times
d. I don’t want my partner to hurt because my insecurity makes them feel like I don’t trust them or don’t feel overall secure in our relationship
e. I fear that my partner will invalidate my feelings
f. I fear that my partner will be upset with me for needing some extra attention so I feel more secure
g. I fear that my partner will mistake a short period of insecurity for a long term problem
h. I fear that my partner will not be willing to be reassuring to me.
i. I fear that my partner will feel that I am blaming them for my insecurity
j. I fear that my partner will feel like they cannot act on their interest for fear of hurting me, when what I really want from them is just the reassurance that they still care for me, and are still attracted to me even if they are interested in another person
k. I fear that my partner will begin hiding their interests in other from me, or hiding their actions from me, or feel less comfortable talking to me about these things because I need some reassurance when they have a new interest
l. I fear that my partner will not trust or believe that I will work through the insecurity and be back to “normal” in a fairly short amount of time, even shorter if they help me through it.
2. Knowing how to bring up/ talk about topics that are typically considered “sensitive” or “taboo”
3. The fear that a partner is not really “okay” with polyamory
4. The negative and painful things people sometimes say or assume about me, my relationship(s), my capacity to love, my past, my ability to commit, my bf's love for me, etc.
5. The frustration I sometimes feel when I hear peoples misunderstandings of my life and relationship(s) and philosophy on those things.
6. Finding out that people I am close to often assume very incorrect and/or very negative things about me and my relationships, especially when they have never bothered to ask for any clarification about anything they have wondered about or don't quite understand.
7. The frustration I feel when I hear so many many many peoples assumptions and misunderstandings about polyamory in general, and, the frustration I feel when I discover that so many of these people are basically unwilling or uninterested in actually learning and believing the truth about polyamorous relationships.
1. Asking my partner for reassurance when I feel insecure when they are interested in a new person
a. I don’t want my partner to see me as weak
b. I don’t want my partner to see me as an insecure person
c. I don’t want my partner to think less of me because I am not completely confident in myself at all times
d. I don’t want my partner to hurt because my insecurity makes them feel like I don’t trust them or don’t feel overall secure in our relationship
e. I fear that my partner will invalidate my feelings
f. I fear that my partner will be upset with me for needing some extra attention so I feel more secure
g. I fear that my partner will mistake a short period of insecurity for a long term problem
h. I fear that my partner will not be willing to be reassuring to me.
i. I fear that my partner will feel that I am blaming them for my insecurity
j. I fear that my partner will feel like they cannot act on their interest for fear of hurting me, when what I really want from them is just the reassurance that they still care for me, and are still attracted to me even if they are interested in another person
k. I fear that my partner will begin hiding their interests in other from me, or hiding their actions from me, or feel less comfortable talking to me about these things because I need some reassurance when they have a new interest
l. I fear that my partner will not trust or believe that I will work through the insecurity and be back to “normal” in a fairly short amount of time, even shorter if they help me through it.
2. Knowing how to bring up/ talk about topics that are typically considered “sensitive” or “taboo”
3. The fear that a partner is not really “okay” with polyamory
4. The negative and painful things people sometimes say or assume about me, my relationship(s), my capacity to love, my past, my ability to commit, my bf's love for me, etc.
5. The frustration I sometimes feel when I hear peoples misunderstandings of my life and relationship(s) and philosophy on those things.
6. Finding out that people I am close to often assume very incorrect and/or very negative things about me and my relationships, especially when they have never bothered to ask for any clarification about anything they have wondered about or don't quite understand.
7. The frustration I feel when I hear so many many many peoples assumptions and misunderstandings about polyamory in general, and, the frustration I feel when I discover that so many of these people are basically unwilling or uninterested in actually learning and believing the truth about polyamorous relationships.
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